Light
Inquisitor
Posts: 59
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Post by Light on Oct 11, 2008 22:59:14 GMT -7
The age old question! Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Debate!
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Post by Pem on Oct 14, 2008 8:05:31 GMT -7
Well in all honesty when did the ancestor of the chicken become the chicken as we know it. What determines what an animal is occurs during development. In the case of the birds, this development occurs in the egg. However, the genes for development came from it's parents, and recombination can cause variation to the offspring. However, a chicken became a chicken, (if you want to define a sharp line), when the last mutation that separated it from it's ancestor occurred. Having taken what I have written above into account, this could have only happened in the egg. So the egg came first even if what layed it was only 99.99999% similar to the chicken the egg would hatch to.
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Light
Inquisitor
Posts: 59
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Post by Light on Oct 22, 2008 13:39:27 GMT -7
But what if the egg made by the chicken was different in some way to the egg it hatched from? Could the egg differ due to the chicken's new DNA?
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Post by Pem on Oct 23, 2008 8:07:14 GMT -7
That's the whole point lol.
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Light
Inquisitor
Posts: 59
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Post by Light on Oct 23, 2008 15:58:50 GMT -7
No, I'm talking about the properties of the egg laid by the chicken being different, while the chicken that hatched from it is the same as the one that laid the egg.
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Post by electroshock on Nov 4, 2008 15:21:15 GMT -7
i was thinking, and i think that the first chicken came long before chickens began to populate the earth. I know that makes almost no sense, but let me explain.
So here we are, at the hatching of the first chicken. this chicken is in a nest of many birds, and he, through the process of random mutation, is a chicken in a nest of this species of "99.99999%" chickens. Now, since this birds is a completely random mutation, it may have a different number of chromosomes than the species it evolved from. therefore, it couldn't breed and the species died. some time later, the random mutation occurs again, this time in more than one offspring, and the species proliferates quickly.
i know this has almost nothing to do with the topic at hand, but i was thinking and felt like expressing it.
oh, and i think the egg came first.
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Post by dallen9 on Feb 20, 2009 16:06:40 GMT -7
Well.. This is The oldest and Still Highly Debated Question.... The Chicken Cause The Chicken Lays the First Chicken Egg! Even if it Was Layed in an Egg First the Chicken was no Layed by a Chicken There For the Egg was not a Chicken Egg! It was a Crooster Egg! and a Chicken came out of a Crooster Egg! So this now Chicken is around so the Question still Remains..... Do we count the Egg or do we count the Chicken After Leaving the Egg? (And Yes There is No such thing as a Crooster I made that part up. Also I'm for the Chicken)
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Post by millis on Mar 1, 2009 3:59:28 GMT -7
Technically, eggs are far more likely to have evolved before the chicken. Especially modern chickens seem to be from a process of artificial selection for the biggest breast meat and stuff. I suppose our answer depends on how you look at the question, as Dallen very well demonstrated. If you take it as an actual chicken egg, from a chicken, then the egg came after the species 'chicken' was established, or it was just another random egg. I look at it from the other side, the idea of an egg evolved first, the chicken produced for farming today a long time after. Origin of the chicken? Meh, no idea I would say evolution til the point one human thought 'hey, i could keep lots of these and breed the huge ones! ^^'
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Post by Pem on Mar 4, 2009 11:15:48 GMT -7
Whoo go Millis that, is exactly my argument as well. Unless you define the egg as a chicken egg we have to assume any egg. Egg production out develops chickens by a dinosaur.
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Post by millis on Mar 4, 2009 12:03:23 GMT -7
*facepalm* Duh, Millis, dinosaurs...
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Light
Inquisitor
Posts: 59
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Post by Light on Mar 4, 2009 15:40:05 GMT -7
Alright, I think it's best for the purpose of this debate if we define the egg in question as a chicken egg. And since I think chickens evolved from dinosaurs (I think I heard that, but I mighta forgot...) We can just say the dinosaur egg is the ancestor egg. XD
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Post by millis on Mar 4, 2009 15:43:59 GMT -7
Well the idea is that birds evolved from dinosaurs, i believe...too long since i was at school...but, that definitely means the chicken came before the egg in question Though now im pondering if the dinosaur-chicken link...
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Light
Inquisitor
Posts: 59
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Post by Light on Mar 4, 2009 16:06:11 GMT -7
Huh...that's actually pretty interesting now that I think about it... I can understand us evolving from some monkey-like creature, but a dinosaur evolving into a chicken just seems odd... Honestly, this whole debate centers around how you define a chicken egg, anyway. What comes out of it, or what it comes out of.
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Post by electroshock on Mar 4, 2009 21:27:06 GMT -7
Light is right. You must first define "egg" in order to truly answer the question correctly.
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Post by millis on Mar 5, 2009 0:34:54 GMT -7
I already said that XD A chicken egg can only come out of a chicken. T'is an egg that has to be laid by a chicken. If a sparrow laid a chicken egg, it would hurt and it would be weird... Likewise, a chicken can only lay chicken eggs once it is, indeed a chicken. The modern day chicken egg is probably nothing like the first eggs chickens laid though.Regardless, the species chicken arose, laying eggs that produced more chickens. The egg came before the species. The specific kind of egg came after the species was established. The modern egg was established even later that that.
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